IN STEP WITH GEORGE VENN:
AN INTERVIEW
by Jon Cowan, Eric Prasoloff, Leah Bjornskov • Lake Oswego High School, Portland, Oregon • March, 1997
Introduction: The void of information that came up after entering "Venn, George" on the Internet left us frustrated and unfulfilled. But instead of chewing the cord and strangling Leah for her technical incompetence, an inspirational spark of sneakiness urged us to try once more– this time on a different search engine–“The People Search.” We typed in his name and danced in euphoria as his address and telephone number flashed brazenly across the screen. At this point, we knew what we had to do. Our one and only hope was to send Leah on the perilous mission to call the intimidating literary genius.
Q: Did religion influence you? How so?
GV: I grew up in a complicated world. My biological father died when I was three months old, and I was raised by my grandmother until I was four. Then, my mother married a Presbyterian minister. Official religious views were taken very seriously in my house. In my work, I examine the influence of Christian beliefs. I found Christianity to be a mold you must adapt to, and I never found it very satisfying.
Q: Who was your greatest inspiration and why?
GV: No one in particular. I've had many influences. Not necessarily writers, but people who have cared for me like my grandma, my family. I've been inspired by William Stafford and Spanish writers. The work of English and American authors is very eclectic and diversified.
Q: What is your favorite poem or essay that you wrote?
GV: My new ones. I'm getting ready to publish a new book. In Off the Main Road I am especially fond of "How to Live Two Days in Osborn, Idaho". It has been reprinted four times since the book came out in 1978. Recently, publishers from California want to reprint it. I like it because it's different from my usual work. It has repetend which interests me a lot. It moves down the page well.
Q: Our favorite poem was "Forgive Us.." Can you comment on it?
GV: The title is referring to the controversial line in the Lord's Prayer, “forgive us our trespasses....” I wonder: if God is supposed to be so compassionate, why does he let the people suffer who have made a deal with him to be faithful? My grandfather suffered and died from Parkinson's. We forgive those who trespass against us, so why doesn't God seem to show mercy to us?
Q: What advice would you give aspiring writers?
GV: Writing is not a foot race. It is slow, long, delightful, but difficult and exacting. You may never be paid for your passion. You must be able to support yourself while you are maturing.
Q: What are your favorite literary themes?
GV: Well, I'm just finishing two books of essays and a book of poems. On of the books is basically Northwest literature, which I like to read and write. The other is personal essays about my experiences, which I also like to write about. The book of poems is a complex set of experiences over the last 20 years.
Q: What authors do you admire?
GV: I can't pick out anybody in particular. I have a bookshelf 12 x 25 feet, and it's packed. I enjoy authors with a lot of literary range and complexity. I admire authors from all cultures, periods, and societies. I am very widely read. I read a lot of Chinese literature in China, Spanish literature in Latin America. My wife is Australian and I've become interested in Australian literature. I admire a lot of Pacific Northwest authors. All authors have different virtues.
Q: What classes do you teach?
GV: Writing, lit. courses, freshman and senior English. This term I'm teaching “Professional Editing and Publishing.” I've been teaching half-time for 20 years.
Q: Is there anything else you'd like our class to know about you?
GV: If you're studying to be a writer, the process will lead you to discovery. You'll learn things you didn't know. Those new discoveries are what a writer has to share. And you'll never know where writing will lead you. Trust language to drive you to new insights. Writing can help you and your readers understand the immediate world beyond its obvious surfaces. You can discover the truth that the surface conceals.
Final Comment:
In addition to answering the questions, George also gave us added insight to his poem “Forgive Us....” He did a lot of homework after his grandfather died of Parkinson’s disease. The illness may have been caused by his grandfather's use of extremely toxic chemicals as a beekeeper. The perspective George had when he wrote the poem is somewhat different now. He realizes that his grandfather himself may have been instrumental in his own demise. In the poem, he's holding the gods responsible, but now he has realized that his grandfather may have contributed directly to the disease—not to the death, but to the fact that he suffered in the nursing home as much as he did. The new perspective adds an interesting twist to the poem and to the anger expressed in the poem towards God.
Attachment: personal letter August 28, 1997, George Venn to Leah Bjornskov—3 pages
105 Fir St., Apt. 724
La Grande, OR 97850
August 28, 1997
Ms. Leah Bjornskov
3884 Lake Grove Avenue
Lake Oswego, OR 97035
Dear Ms. Bjornskov:
Back in March this year, you sent me the results of your research project,"In Step With George Venn," which you completed for Mr. Gillespie's class with John Cowan and Eric Prasoloff. When your project arrived, I was just overwhelmed with things to do–two courses, two national job searches for professors, new loves, old loves, a national conference to prepare for, etc. Now that huge logjam is all broken up and gone down the river. I'm back to a reasonable life again, and catching up on my correspondence. So, I wanted to write to thank you for your work on "In Step with George Venn" and to give you a few corrections and additional details–just in case Mr. Gillespie or anyone should ever want to use your text for future reference.
Overall, Leah, I liked the question and answer format. It think it made the piece easy to read and the eye always loves the white space between questions and answers.
A couple of very important corrections need to be made in my biography. In our first exchange on page 1, my first answer, second sentence, should be corrected to read, "My father died when I was three months old and I was raised by my grandparents until I was four." Those two facts are important and both got bobbled in the phone interview, transcription, or at the printer. I know how this happens, since I make the same kinds of errors myself.
I liked the way the commentary on "Forgive Us..." came out. Let me add a few details to your paragraph from our telephone interview. The key issue there, I suppose, is that the poem doesn't show any ironic awareness, but I have learned to see my grandfather's slow death from Parkinson's disease as ironic. My grandfather's name was George Mayo. He was one of the early migratory beekeepers in the state of Washington. He pollenized apples throughout Eastern Washington for about 20 years, and produced up to 40 tons of honey annually during that same period. He used carbolic acid in vapor form to drive bees from their honey—a common practice for beekeepers in the 1950s. Carbolic acid is a nerve poison. He also used powdered cyanide, another nerve poison that turned to vapor to kill about half of his 600 hives of bees every year. He did this because queen bees older than two years create very weak populations of new bees and so the hives produce less honey which adds up to less money for the beekeeper. Old queens also have to eventually be killed and replaced by new queens anyway, since they stop laying eggs and the hive's population then is threatened. Finally, my grandfather killed about half of his bees with cyanide every year to avoid paying taxes on them, since tax laws stated that a beekeeper only had to pay taxes on those hives with laying queens on December 31 of the tax year. After the bees were dead in the hives, he would open each hive—one at a time—in a closed warehouse. The cyanide gas would, of course, still be active. I can still smell it as I write this for you—a sharp, bitter, acidic smell and taste on your tongue. He would dump all of the dead bees into a huge old washtub, clean out the old waxburrs inside the hive, sort out the broken, old, or worst honeycombs—those that had too many drone cells were his top priority, since it takes 20 worker bees to feed one drone and drones would obviously eat his profits.
During that process of cleaning out the gassed hives, a process which might have taken him two full months each winter of working indoors, he had to be exposed to dangerous levels of cyanide. So, you see, the chemicals he used to improve his apiary, to manage nature, to save money, to make a profit—those chemicals may well have caused his disease, since Parkinsons is a central nervous system disorder. He was exposing his central nervous system to high levels of highly-toxic chemicals.
Did he know this? I can't tell. He may well have been innocent of these side effects—the same way everyone was innocent about DDT until researchers began to publish its dangers. He was not an educated man. He graduated from the eighth grade in Wisconsin.
Did he have any other vices? Drinking? Smoking? Swearing? Womanizing? Gambling? Wasting time? Abusing his wife and children? Not one, Leah. He was an explicitly Christian moralist—frugal, sober, hardworking, pious. He worked every day as hard as two men—daylight to dark. I know. I worked with him for about six years while I was growing up. He went to church. He was a good singer. He was a humane butcher. He was a pillar of his community.
He lived by the Protestant code. He did all of the right things EXCEPT, Leah, he used those poisons and no one told him to watch out? Or, maybe, since he was such a powerful man, he thought that nothing as small as a chemical could affect him? Maybe he thought he was invulnerable? I don't know.
So, you see, Leah, the irony here is really very contemporary—unwittingly we all might be destroying ourselves in exactly the same way as George Mayo did—with the how-many-is-it? 30,000 new chemical compounds since World War II? I read that figure somewhere. I didn't put any of this together until much later than 1976—which I think was the year I sat down in my grandparents' kitchen in Alder, Washington, one August afternoon and wrote "Forgive Us..." after coming back from visiting my grandfather in a Puyallup nursing home.
One last addition/correction on page 2: when quoting the poem and image, as you did, to be legal you should give clear credit to the copyrighted source and authors/artists, as in : "from Off The Main Road (1978) by George Venn and used by permission. Graphic by Don Gray."
Well, I hope this gives you a little something to think about as you continue your writing and reading, and maybe there's enough information here for revision and editing of "In Step...."
So, thanks, again, for chosing me for your research project. I feel honored to have been chosen. As promised, here is a signed copy of my book for you.
If you see Mr. Gillespie, say hello to him for me. He's one of the best.
Cheers,
George Venn
enclosure: signed copy of Off The Main Road
Q: Did religion influence you? How so?
GV: I grew up in a complicated world. My biological father died when I was three months old, and I was raised by my grandmother until I was four. Then, my mother married a Presbyterian minister. Official religious views were taken very seriously in my house. In my work, I examine the influence of Christian beliefs. I found Christianity to be a mold you must adapt to, and I never found it very satisfying.
Q: Who was your greatest inspiration and why?
GV: No one in particular. I've had many influences. Not necessarily writers, but people who have cared for me like my grandma, my family. I've been inspired by William Stafford and Spanish writers. The work of English and American authors is very eclectic and diversified.
Q: What is your favorite poem or essay that you wrote?
GV: My new ones. I'm getting ready to publish a new book. In Off the Main Road I am especially fond of "How to Live Two Days in Osborn, Idaho". It has been reprinted four times since the book came out in 1978. Recently, publishers from California want to reprint it. I like it because it's different from my usual work. It has repetend which interests me a lot. It moves down the page well.
Q: Our favorite poem was "Forgive Us.." Can you comment on it?
GV: The title is referring to the controversial line in the Lord's Prayer, “forgive us our trespasses....” I wonder: if God is supposed to be so compassionate, why does he let the people suffer who have made a deal with him to be faithful? My grandfather suffered and died from Parkinson's. We forgive those who trespass against us, so why doesn't God seem to show mercy to us?
Q: What advice would you give aspiring writers?
GV: Writing is not a foot race. It is slow, long, delightful, but difficult and exacting. You may never be paid for your passion. You must be able to support yourself while you are maturing.
Q: What are your favorite literary themes?
GV: Well, I'm just finishing two books of essays and a book of poems. On of the books is basically Northwest literature, which I like to read and write. The other is personal essays about my experiences, which I also like to write about. The book of poems is a complex set of experiences over the last 20 years.
Q: What authors do you admire?
GV: I can't pick out anybody in particular. I have a bookshelf 12 x 25 feet, and it's packed. I enjoy authors with a lot of literary range and complexity. I admire authors from all cultures, periods, and societies. I am very widely read. I read a lot of Chinese literature in China, Spanish literature in Latin America. My wife is Australian and I've become interested in Australian literature. I admire a lot of Pacific Northwest authors. All authors have different virtues.
Q: What classes do you teach?
GV: Writing, lit. courses, freshman and senior English. This term I'm teaching “Professional Editing and Publishing.” I've been teaching half-time for 20 years.
Q: Is there anything else you'd like our class to know about you?
GV: If you're studying to be a writer, the process will lead you to discovery. You'll learn things you didn't know. Those new discoveries are what a writer has to share. And you'll never know where writing will lead you. Trust language to drive you to new insights. Writing can help you and your readers understand the immediate world beyond its obvious surfaces. You can discover the truth that the surface conceals.
Final Comment:
In addition to answering the questions, George also gave us added insight to his poem “Forgive Us....” He did a lot of homework after his grandfather died of Parkinson’s disease. The illness may have been caused by his grandfather's use of extremely toxic chemicals as a beekeeper. The perspective George had when he wrote the poem is somewhat different now. He realizes that his grandfather himself may have been instrumental in his own demise. In the poem, he's holding the gods responsible, but now he has realized that his grandfather may have contributed directly to the disease—not to the death, but to the fact that he suffered in the nursing home as much as he did. The new perspective adds an interesting twist to the poem and to the anger expressed in the poem towards God.
Attachment: personal letter August 28, 1997, George Venn to Leah Bjornskov—3 pages
105 Fir St., Apt. 724
La Grande, OR 97850
August 28, 1997
Ms. Leah Bjornskov
3884 Lake Grove Avenue
Lake Oswego, OR 97035
Dear Ms. Bjornskov:
Back in March this year, you sent me the results of your research project,"In Step With George Venn," which you completed for Mr. Gillespie's class with John Cowan and Eric Prasoloff. When your project arrived, I was just overwhelmed with things to do–two courses, two national job searches for professors, new loves, old loves, a national conference to prepare for, etc. Now that huge logjam is all broken up and gone down the river. I'm back to a reasonable life again, and catching up on my correspondence. So, I wanted to write to thank you for your work on "In Step with George Venn" and to give you a few corrections and additional details–just in case Mr. Gillespie or anyone should ever want to use your text for future reference.
Overall, Leah, I liked the question and answer format. It think it made the piece easy to read and the eye always loves the white space between questions and answers.
A couple of very important corrections need to be made in my biography. In our first exchange on page 1, my first answer, second sentence, should be corrected to read, "My father died when I was three months old and I was raised by my grandparents until I was four." Those two facts are important and both got bobbled in the phone interview, transcription, or at the printer. I know how this happens, since I make the same kinds of errors myself.
I liked the way the commentary on "Forgive Us..." came out. Let me add a few details to your paragraph from our telephone interview. The key issue there, I suppose, is that the poem doesn't show any ironic awareness, but I have learned to see my grandfather's slow death from Parkinson's disease as ironic. My grandfather's name was George Mayo. He was one of the early migratory beekeepers in the state of Washington. He pollenized apples throughout Eastern Washington for about 20 years, and produced up to 40 tons of honey annually during that same period. He used carbolic acid in vapor form to drive bees from their honey—a common practice for beekeepers in the 1950s. Carbolic acid is a nerve poison. He also used powdered cyanide, another nerve poison that turned to vapor to kill about half of his 600 hives of bees every year. He did this because queen bees older than two years create very weak populations of new bees and so the hives produce less honey which adds up to less money for the beekeeper. Old queens also have to eventually be killed and replaced by new queens anyway, since they stop laying eggs and the hive's population then is threatened. Finally, my grandfather killed about half of his bees with cyanide every year to avoid paying taxes on them, since tax laws stated that a beekeeper only had to pay taxes on those hives with laying queens on December 31 of the tax year. After the bees were dead in the hives, he would open each hive—one at a time—in a closed warehouse. The cyanide gas would, of course, still be active. I can still smell it as I write this for you—a sharp, bitter, acidic smell and taste on your tongue. He would dump all of the dead bees into a huge old washtub, clean out the old waxburrs inside the hive, sort out the broken, old, or worst honeycombs—those that had too many drone cells were his top priority, since it takes 20 worker bees to feed one drone and drones would obviously eat his profits.
During that process of cleaning out the gassed hives, a process which might have taken him two full months each winter of working indoors, he had to be exposed to dangerous levels of cyanide. So, you see, the chemicals he used to improve his apiary, to manage nature, to save money, to make a profit—those chemicals may well have caused his disease, since Parkinsons is a central nervous system disorder. He was exposing his central nervous system to high levels of highly-toxic chemicals.
Did he know this? I can't tell. He may well have been innocent of these side effects—the same way everyone was innocent about DDT until researchers began to publish its dangers. He was not an educated man. He graduated from the eighth grade in Wisconsin.
Did he have any other vices? Drinking? Smoking? Swearing? Womanizing? Gambling? Wasting time? Abusing his wife and children? Not one, Leah. He was an explicitly Christian moralist—frugal, sober, hardworking, pious. He worked every day as hard as two men—daylight to dark. I know. I worked with him for about six years while I was growing up. He went to church. He was a good singer. He was a humane butcher. He was a pillar of his community.
He lived by the Protestant code. He did all of the right things EXCEPT, Leah, he used those poisons and no one told him to watch out? Or, maybe, since he was such a powerful man, he thought that nothing as small as a chemical could affect him? Maybe he thought he was invulnerable? I don't know.
So, you see, Leah, the irony here is really very contemporary—unwittingly we all might be destroying ourselves in exactly the same way as George Mayo did—with the how-many-is-it? 30,000 new chemical compounds since World War II? I read that figure somewhere. I didn't put any of this together until much later than 1976—which I think was the year I sat down in my grandparents' kitchen in Alder, Washington, one August afternoon and wrote "Forgive Us..." after coming back from visiting my grandfather in a Puyallup nursing home.
One last addition/correction on page 2: when quoting the poem and image, as you did, to be legal you should give clear credit to the copyrighted source and authors/artists, as in : "from Off The Main Road (1978) by George Venn and used by permission. Graphic by Don Gray."
Well, I hope this gives you a little something to think about as you continue your writing and reading, and maybe there's enough information here for revision and editing of "In Step...."
So, thanks, again, for chosing me for your research project. I feel honored to have been chosen. As promised, here is a signed copy of my book for you.
If you see Mr. Gillespie, say hello to him for me. He's one of the best.
Cheers,
George Venn
enclosure: signed copy of Off The Main Road